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  1. The Dave Gerhardt Show (from Exit Five)
  2. How to Be the CMO Everyone Wants to Work With (with Dave Kellogg)
How to Be the CMO Everyone Wants to Work With (with Dave Kellogg)

How to Be the CMO Everyone Wants to Work With (with Dave Kellogg)

The Dave Gerhardt Show (from Exit Five) · Mar 31, 2026

Ex-CMO/CEO Dave Kellogg reveals why CMOs fail, the 3 jobs of a leader, and how to become the indispensable partner everyone wants to work with.

Your Strongest Defense in a Board Meeting is Having Your CRO Take the Bullet For You

If the board questions a marketing decision you made collaboratively with sales, the most effective response is for the CRO to intervene and publicly defend it. This demonstrates true alignment and shifts the focus from marketing cost to shared business impact.

How to Be the CMO Everyone Wants to Work With (with Dave Kellogg) thumbnail

How to Be the CMO Everyone Wants to Work With (with Dave Kellogg)

The Dave Gerhardt Show (from Exit Five)·10 hours ago

Treat Sales Requests Like a Doctor: Diagnose the Problem Before Fulfilling the Prescription

Don't just be an order-taker for the sales team. When they request a specific tactic (the prescription), act like a doctor by first diagnosing the underlying business problem (the symptoms). This shifts the relationship from servile to a strategic partnership.

How to Be the CMO Everyone Wants to Work With (with Dave Kellogg) thumbnail

How to Be the CMO Everyone Wants to Work With (with Dave Kellogg)

The Dave Gerhardt Show (from Exit Five)·10 hours ago

To Avoid Defensiveness, Stop Talking and Start Listening with Genuine Curiosity

When performance is challenged, the instinct is to get defensive. A better approach is to adopt the persona of a "dispassionate analyst." You can't be defensive if you're not talking, so listen more and use genuine curiosity to understand the other person's perspective before responding.

How to Be the CMO Everyone Wants to Work With (with Dave Kellogg) thumbnail

How to Be the CMO Everyone Wants to Work With (with Dave Kellogg)

The Dave Gerhardt Show (from Exit Five)·10 hours ago

Adopt a 'Long-Term Interim' Mindset to Survive the CMO's 18-Month Median Tenure

The median CMO tenure is only 18-24 months. Approaching the role as a "long-term interim" can reduce defensiveness and emotional reactions, leading to better performance and mental health. It reframes the job's inherent volatility as a feature, not a bug.

How to Be the CMO Everyone Wants to Work With (with Dave Kellogg) thumbnail

How to Be the CMO Everyone Wants to Work With (with Dave Kellogg)

The Dave Gerhardt Show (from Exit Five)·10 hours ago

Executives Must Trade Perfectionism for Prioritization, Seeking A's Only on What Matters

While perfectionism earns early-career promotions, it's a poor instinct for executives. The job is not to get "straight A's" but to identify what truly matters and excel there, while accepting C's or even F's in lower-priority areas to conserve focus.

How to Be the CMO Everyone Wants to Work With (with Dave Kellogg) thumbnail

How to Be the CMO Everyone Wants to Work With (with Dave Kellogg)

The Dave Gerhardt Show (from Exit Five)·10 hours ago

The Road to a Bad Presentation Begins by Reusing Slides in Slide Sorter View

Starting a new presentation by picking slides from an old one prioritizes reuse over the audience. This leads to disjointed, ineffective communication. Always start with a blank slate, focusing first on the new audience and what they need to hear, not on what content you already have.

How to Be the CMO Everyone Wants to Work With (with Dave Kellogg) thumbnail

How to Be the CMO Everyone Wants to Work With (with Dave Kellogg)

The Dave Gerhardt Show (from Exit Five)·10 hours ago

A CMO Becomes a Scapegoat When the CRO Monopolizes CEO Access and Shapes the Narrative

When a CRO frames business problems as purely top-of-funnel and dominates the CEO's time, the CMO is being set up to fail. The CMO must aggressively seek equal access to the CEO to present a balanced, data-driven view of the entire go-to-market function.

How to Be the CMO Everyone Wants to Work With (with Dave Kellogg) thumbnail

How to Be the CMO Everyone Wants to Work With (with Dave Kellogg)

The Dave Gerhardt Show (from Exit Five)·10 hours ago

Niche Experts Fail as CMOs When They Don't Show Genuine Interest in Weaker Functions

A specialist (e.g., in demand gen) promoted to CMO must actively engage in their areas of weakness (e.g., product marketing). Simply delegating these functions confirms you're a "two-thirds" marketer. Demonstrating genuine interest is critical for success in the broader role.

How to Be the CMO Everyone Wants to Work With (with Dave Kellogg) thumbnail

How to Be the CMO Everyone Wants to Work With (with Dave Kellogg)

The Dave Gerhardt Show (from Exit Five)·10 hours ago

Avoid Causing "Retinal Burn" by Never Showing a Shocking Metric Without Immediate Context

Presenting a jarring, out-of-context metric (e.g., a high cost-per-lead for one channel) can burn the image into an executive's mind, creating a long-lasting negative perception. Always provide the necessary context or "eclipse sunglasses" to prevent this "retinal burn."

How to Be the CMO Everyone Wants to Work With (with Dave Kellogg) thumbnail

How to Be the CMO Everyone Wants to Work With (with Dave Kellogg)

The Dave Gerhardt Show (from Exit Five)·10 hours ago

Aim to Be a Single 'Woodstein' Entity with Your CRO, Not Just an Aligned Partner

The goal isn't just sales and marketing alignment. It's to form a partnership so tight with your CRO that you operate as a single unit, like the journalists Woodward and Bernstein ("Woodstein"). This combined entity can influence the CEO and drive change in a way two separate leaders cannot.

How to Be the CMO Everyone Wants to Work With (with Dave Kellogg) thumbnail

How to Be the CMO Everyone Wants to Work With (with Dave Kellogg)

The Dave Gerhardt Show (from Exit Five)·10 hours ago

If the CEO and CRO Disagree, a CMO Should Default to Siding With Their Customer: The CRO

In a conflict between CEO and CRO directives, a CMO's safest tactical move is to side with the CRO. The sales team is your primary internal customer, and their success dictates your success. You can get fired while hitting all your CEO-mandated goals if the sales team comes for you.

How to Be the CMO Everyone Wants to Work With (with Dave Kellogg) thumbnail

How to Be the CMO Everyone Wants to Work With (with Dave Kellogg)

The Dave Gerhardt Show (from Exit Five)·10 hours ago

A CMO Has Three Jobs: Run Marketing, Help the CEO, and Market Your Department's Value

Your role as a CMO isn't just running the marketing department. It's a three-part job: 1) execute marketing, 2) help the CEO run the entire company, and 3) continuously market the value and impact of your team internally. Neglecting the second and third jobs is a path to failure.

How to Be the CMO Everyone Wants to Work With (with Dave Kellogg) thumbnail

How to Be the CMO Everyone Wants to Work With (with Dave Kellogg)

The Dave Gerhardt Show (from Exit Five)·10 hours ago