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  1. The Tim Ferriss Show
  2. #830: Nick Kokonas and Richard Thaler, Nobel Prize Laureate — Realistic Economics, Avoiding The Winner’s Curse, Using Temptation Bundling, and Going Against the Establishment
#830: Nick Kokonas and Richard Thaler, Nobel Prize Laureate — Realistic Economics, Avoiding The Winner’s Curse, Using Temptation Bundling, and Going Against the Establishment

#830: Nick Kokonas and Richard Thaler, Nobel Prize Laureate — Realistic Economics, Avoiding The Winner’s Curse, Using Temptation Bundling, and Going Against the Establishment

The Tim Ferriss Show · Oct 10, 2025

Nobel laureate Richard Thaler discusses behavioral economics, nudges, and how human psychology, not rational models, drives our decisions.

Traditional Economics Models Rationality to Simplify Math, Not to Reflect Reality

Post-WWII, economists pursued mathematical rigor by modeling human behavior as perfectly rational (i.e., 'maximizing'). This was a convenient simplification for building models, not an accurate depiction of how people actually make decisions, which are often messy and imperfect.

#830: Nick Kokonas and Richard Thaler, Nobel Prize Laureate — Realistic Economics, Avoiding The Winner’s Curse, Using Temptation Bundling, and Going Against the Establishment thumbnail

#830: Nick Kokonas and Richard Thaler, Nobel Prize Laureate — Realistic Economics, Avoiding The Winner’s Curse, Using Temptation Bundling, and Going Against the Establishment

The Tim Ferriss Show·4 months ago

The 'Winner's Curse' Dictates That Winning an Auction Often Means You've Overpaid

In auctions with uncertain value (like oil leases or even NFL draft picks), the winner is not a random bidder but the one with the most optimistic valuation. This often means the winner has significantly overestimated the item's true worth and is therefore 'cursed' by their victory.

#830: Nick Kokonas and Richard Thaler, Nobel Prize Laureate — Realistic Economics, Avoiding The Winner’s Curse, Using Temptation Bundling, and Going Against the Establishment thumbnail

#830: Nick Kokonas and Richard Thaler, Nobel Prize Laureate — Realistic Economics, Avoiding The Winner’s Curse, Using Temptation Bundling, and Going Against the Establishment

The Tim Ferriss Show·4 months ago

Making an Action the Default Option Dramatically Increases Participation

To drive adoption, changing the default from opt-in to opt-out is far more effective than simply reducing friction. When a company automatically enrolled new employees into a 401(k) plan, participation jumped from 50% to 90%, demonstrating the immense power of status quo bias.

#830: Nick Kokonas and Richard Thaler, Nobel Prize Laureate — Realistic Economics, Avoiding The Winner’s Curse, Using Temptation Bundling, and Going Against the Establishment thumbnail

#830: Nick Kokonas and Richard Thaler, Nobel Prize Laureate — Realistic Economics, Avoiding The Winner’s Curse, Using Temptation Bundling, and Going Against the Establishment

The Tim Ferriss Show·4 months ago

Economic Models Based on Expert Behavior Fail Because Most People Aren't Experts

Milton Friedman's 'as if' defense of rational models—that people act 'as if' they are experts—is flawed. Predicting the behavior of an average golfer by modeling Tiger Woods is bound to fail. Models must account for the behavior of regular people, not just theoretical, hyper-rational experts.

#830: Nick Kokonas and Richard Thaler, Nobel Prize Laureate — Realistic Economics, Avoiding The Winner’s Curse, Using Temptation Bundling, and Going Against the Establishment thumbnail

#830: Nick Kokonas and Richard Thaler, Nobel Prize Laureate — Realistic Economics, Avoiding The Winner’s Curse, Using Temptation Bundling, and Going Against the Establishment

The Tim Ferriss Show·4 months ago

Removing Options Can Improve Outcomes by Acknowledging Self-Control Limits

Contrary to the economic theory that more choice is always better, people sometimes prefer fewer options. Removing a tempting choice, like a bowl of cashews before dinner, can lead to better outcomes by acting as a pre-commitment device, which helps overcome a lack of self-control.

#830: Nick Kokonas and Richard Thaler, Nobel Prize Laureate — Realistic Economics, Avoiding The Winner’s Curse, Using Temptation Bundling, and Going Against the Establishment thumbnail

#830: Nick Kokonas and Richard Thaler, Nobel Prize Laureate — Realistic Economics, Avoiding The Winner’s Curse, Using Temptation Bundling, and Going Against the Establishment

The Tim Ferriss Show·4 months ago

Violating Public Fairness for Short-Term Profit Can Destroy a Business

Maximizing profits in a crisis, such as a hardware store hiking shovel prices during a blizzard, ignores the powerful economic force of fairness. While rational by traditional models, such actions cause public outrage that can inflict far more long-term brand damage than the short-term profits are worth.

#830: Nick Kokonas and Richard Thaler, Nobel Prize Laureate — Realistic Economics, Avoiding The Winner’s Curse, Using Temptation Bundling, and Going Against the Establishment thumbnail

#830: Nick Kokonas and Richard Thaler, Nobel Prize Laureate — Realistic Economics, Avoiding The Winner’s Curse, Using Temptation Bundling, and Going Against the Establishment

The Tim Ferriss Show·4 months ago

To Revolutionize a Field, Influence the Next Generation Instead of Converting Old Guards

Richard Thaler realized he couldn't convince his established peers of behavioral economics' merits. Instead, he focused on 'corrupting the youth' by creating a summer camp for top graduate students and writing accessible journal articles. This new generation then populated top universities and changed the field from within.

#830: Nick Kokonas and Richard Thaler, Nobel Prize Laureate — Realistic Economics, Avoiding The Winner’s Curse, Using Temptation Bundling, and Going Against the Establishment thumbnail

#830: Nick Kokonas and Richard Thaler, Nobel Prize Laureate — Realistic Economics, Avoiding The Winner’s Curse, Using Temptation Bundling, and Going Against the Establishment

The Tim Ferriss Show·4 months ago

An Oil Company Publicized Its Winning Strategy to Make the Entire Market More Rational

After discovering the 'Winner's Curse' was causing them to overpay for oil leases, Arco engineers faced a problem: bidding less meant losing auctions. Instead of illegal collusion, they published a scientific paper on the phenomenon. This educated their competitors, reducing the likelihood of anyone overbidding and making the market more rational.

#830: Nick Kokonas and Richard Thaler, Nobel Prize Laureate — Realistic Economics, Avoiding The Winner’s Curse, Using Temptation Bundling, and Going Against the Establishment thumbnail

#830: Nick Kokonas and Richard Thaler, Nobel Prize Laureate — Realistic Economics, Avoiding The Winner’s Curse, Using Temptation Bundling, and Going Against the Establishment

The Tim Ferriss Show·4 months ago

The NBA Took 40 Years to Adopt the Mathematically Superior Three-Point Shot

For decades, the math proved a 40% three-point shot was more valuable than a 50% two-point shot. Yet, the NBA was incredibly slow to adopt this strategy. This highlights how even high-stakes, data-rich industries can be slaves to tradition and status quo bias, ignoring obvious quantitative advantages.

#830: Nick Kokonas and Richard Thaler, Nobel Prize Laureate — Realistic Economics, Avoiding The Winner’s Curse, Using Temptation Bundling, and Going Against the Establishment thumbnail

#830: Nick Kokonas and Richard Thaler, Nobel Prize Laureate — Realistic Economics, Avoiding The Winner’s Curse, Using Temptation Bundling, and Going Against the Establishment

The Tim Ferriss Show·4 months ago

'Mental Accounting' Causes People to Irrationally Treat Money Differently Based on Its Source

People don't treat all money as fungible. They create mental buckets based on the money's origin—'windfall,' 'salary,' 'savings'—and spend from them differently. Money won in a bet feels easier to spend on luxuries than money from a paycheck, even though its value is identical.

#830: Nick Kokonas and Richard Thaler, Nobel Prize Laureate — Realistic Economics, Avoiding The Winner’s Curse, Using Temptation Bundling, and Going Against the Establishment thumbnail

#830: Nick Kokonas and Richard Thaler, Nobel Prize Laureate — Realistic Economics, Avoiding The Winner’s Curse, Using Temptation Bundling, and Going Against the Establishment

The Tim Ferriss Show·4 months ago