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  1. Making Sense with Sam Harris
  2. #443 — What Is Christian Nationalism?
#443 — What Is Christian Nationalism?

#443 — What Is Christian Nationalism?

Making Sense with Sam Harris · Nov 10, 2025

Sam Harris interviews pastor Doug Wilson on Christian nationalism, young-earth creationism, and his post-millennial vision for a Christian America.

Biblical 'End Times' Language Is Reinterpreted as Past Political Collapse

Theologian Doug Wilson argues that biblical prophecies of cosmic collapse—like the sun going dark—are not about the future end of the world. As a "preterist," he views this "decreation language" as a standard Old Testament metaphor for the fall of a nation, asserting Jesus used it to predict the historical destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD.

#443 — What Is Christian Nationalism? thumbnail

#443 — What Is Christian Nationalism?

Making Sense with Sam Harris·3 months ago

Christian Nationalism Is Framed as a Solution to Secularism's 'Failed Project'

Doug Wilson defines Christian nationalism as a direct response to the perceived collapse of secular governance. He argues that a society without a "transcendent grounding" for its morality inevitably disintegrates, citing current cultural shifts as evidence. The movement's goal is to re-establish a public confession of dependence on God to restore social order.

#443 — What Is Christian Nationalism? thumbnail

#443 — What Is Christian Nationalism?

Making Sense with Sam Harris·3 months ago

Theologian Doug Wilson Reads the Bible 'Naturally,' Not Literally

Wilson distinguishes "biblical absolutism" from literalism. He argues for a "natural" reading that respects each book's literary genre—interpreting history as history, poetry as poetry, and apocalyptic literature as symbolic. This allows him to uphold the Bible's authority without, for example, looking for a literal doorknob on Jesus when he says, "I am the door."

#443 — What Is Christian Nationalism? thumbnail

#443 — What Is Christian Nationalism?

Making Sense with Sam Harris·3 months ago

Old Testament Law Applies By Default Unless Explicitly Revoked

Doug Wilson follows a key interpretive rule: the Old Testament applies today unless the New Testament specifically says it doesn't. This "applies unless revoked" view contrasts with the more common evangelical stance that the Old Testament *doesn't* apply unless the New Testament *reaffirms* it. This principle has vast implications for his views on law and society.

#443 — What Is Christian Nationalism? thumbnail

#443 — What Is Christian Nationalism?

Making Sense with Sam Harris·3 months ago

Post-Millennial Theology Drives a Multi-Generational Nation-Building Project

Unlike pre-millennialists who await an imminent rapture, post-millennialist Doug Wilson believes Christians must build a prosperous, global Christian order for at least a thousand years *before* Jesus returns. This theological framework transforms the faith from a passive waiting game into an active, long-term political and cultural project to "make the world a better place."

#443 — What Is Christian Nationalism? thumbnail

#443 — What Is Christian Nationalism?

Making Sense with Sam Harris·3 months ago

Christian Nationalists Support Church-State Separation, Not State-Morality Separation

Pastor Doug Wilson supports the First Amendment's formal separation of church and state, opposing a national or even state-level established church. However, he argues that separating the state from *morality* is impossible. Since any law reflects a moral stance, he insists the key political question is *which* morality—and by extension which religion—will provide the state's foundation.

#443 — What Is Christian Nationalism? thumbnail

#443 — What Is Christian Nationalism?

Making Sense with Sam Harris·3 months ago

Christian Nationalists Plan a Pragmatic, Multi-Century Path to Their Ideal Republic

Rather than seeking immediate revolution, Christian nationalist Doug Wilson outlines an incremental, long-term strategy. He distinguishes between an ideal "Presbyterian utopia" 500 years from now and the current pragmatic need to solve bigger problems. This patient approach, rooted in peaceful persuasion and cultural change, means controversial goals like religious tests for office are not a present focus.

#443 — What Is Christian Nationalism? thumbnail

#443 — What Is Christian Nationalism?

Making Sense with Sam Harris·3 months ago