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  1. A Product Market Fit Show | Startup Podcast for Founders
  2. He "kind of" had PMF for 8 years—until, after a rebuild, he grew 10x to $25M ARR. | Ben Alarie, Founder of Blue J
He "kind of" had PMF for 8 years—until, after a rebuild, he grew 10x to $25M ARR. | Ben Alarie, Founder of Blue J

He "kind of" had PMF for 8 years—until, after a rebuild, he grew 10x to $25M ARR. | Ben Alarie, Founder of Blue J

A Product Market Fit Show | Startup Podcast for Founders · Oct 20, 2025

After an 8-year search, Blue Jay found true PMF by pivoting from supervised ML to LLMs, growing ARR from $2M to over $20M in two years.

Fast Time-to-Value Drives Word-of-Mouth by Lowering Social Risk for Referrers

Word-of-mouth growth is directly tied to a rapid time-to-value. When a user can experience the product's core benefit almost instantly, it significantly lowers the social risk for the person recommending it. The referrer is confident their friend will quickly validate the recommendation, making them look good and removing referral friction.

He "kind of" had PMF for 8 years—until, after a rebuild, he grew 10x to $25M ARR. | Ben Alarie, Founder of Blue J thumbnail

He "kind of" had PMF for 8 years—until, after a rebuild, he grew 10x to $25M ARR. | Ben Alarie, Founder of Blue J

A Product Market Fit Show | Startup Podcast for Founders·4 months ago

Founders Must Be Honest About 'Partial PMF' to Avoid Getting Stuck in Slow Growth

Having paying customers doesn't automatically mean you have strong product-market fit. The founder warns against this self-deception, describing their early traction as a "partial vacuum"—good enough to survive, but not to thrive. Being "ruthlessly honest" about this gap is critical for making necessary, company-defining pivots.

He "kind of" had PMF for 8 years—until, after a rebuild, he grew 10x to $25M ARR. | Ben Alarie, Founder of Blue J thumbnail

He "kind of" had PMF for 8 years—until, after a rebuild, he grew 10x to $25M ARR. | Ben Alarie, Founder of Blue J

A Product Market Fit Show | Startup Podcast for Founders·4 months ago

Safely Pivot a Revenue-Generating Product by Freezing Features and Time-Boxing the New Build

When pivoting from a product with existing revenue, avoid the binary choice of killing it or splitting focus. Blue Jay successfully transitioned by putting their V1 product into "maintenance mode"—servicing existing customers but halting all new feature development—and committing the entire team to building the V2 for a defined six-month period.

He "kind of" had PMF for 8 years—until, after a rebuild, he grew 10x to $25M ARR. | Ben Alarie, Founder of Blue J thumbnail

He "kind of" had PMF for 8 years—until, after a rebuild, he grew 10x to $25M ARR. | Ben Alarie, Founder of Blue J

A Product Market Fit Show | Startup Podcast for Founders·4 months ago

A Niche Founder's Advantage Comes from Combining Expertise with a Career Path Allowing Risk

The founder identified his unique advantage: established tax law partners were too career-invested to risk a startup, while pure tech founders lacked the deep domain knowledge. His position as a law professor provided the necessary expertise and a career structure (a sabbatical) that de-risked the initial leap into entrepreneurship.

He "kind of" had PMF for 8 years—until, after a rebuild, he grew 10x to $25M ARR. | Ben Alarie, Founder of Blue J thumbnail

He "kind of" had PMF for 8 years—until, after a rebuild, he grew 10x to $25M ARR. | Ben Alarie, Founder of Blue J

A Product Market Fit Show | Startup Podcast for Founders·4 months ago

Blue Jay's Founder Was Motivated by Imagining His Future 'Profound Regret'

The motivation to start Blue Jay wasn't just market opportunity, but a powerful personal exercise in avoiding future regret. The founder envisioned himself decades from now, knowing he saw the AI freight train coming for his industry but chose not to act. This imagined feeling of "profound regret" created the urgency to change his professional trajectory.

He "kind of" had PMF for 8 years—until, after a rebuild, he grew 10x to $25M ARR. | Ben Alarie, Founder of Blue J thumbnail

He "kind of" had PMF for 8 years—until, after a rebuild, he grew 10x to $25M ARR. | Ben Alarie, Founder of Blue J

A Product Market Fit Show | Startup Podcast for Founders·4 months ago

Blue Jay Pivoted From Supervised ML to LLMs to Solve Its 'Partial PMF' Problem

Blue Jay's initial supervised learning models for specific tax questions led to inconsistent usage and churn. Users left when their niche problems weren't covered. Pivoting to a generative AI approach (RAG with LLMs) allowed them to answer *any* question, finally achieving strong product-market fit and solving their core retention issue.

He "kind of" had PMF for 8 years—until, after a rebuild, he grew 10x to $25M ARR. | Ben Alarie, Founder of Blue J thumbnail

He "kind of" had PMF for 8 years—until, after a rebuild, he grew 10x to $25M ARR. | Ben Alarie, Founder of Blue J

A Product Market Fit Show | Startup Podcast for Founders·4 months ago

Blue Jay Confirmed Product-Market Fit by Solving a Customer's 2-Week Problem Live in Seconds

Metrics can be misleading. The founder's true "aha" moment for product-market fit came from solving a complex, real-world problem posed by a skeptical expert during a live demo. When the product solved in seconds what took the customer's team two weeks, it provided undeniable proof of value in a high-stakes environment.

He "kind of" had PMF for 8 years—until, after a rebuild, he grew 10x to $25M ARR. | Ben Alarie, Founder of Blue J thumbnail

He "kind of" had PMF for 8 years—until, after a rebuild, he grew 10x to $25M ARR. | Ben Alarie, Founder of Blue J

A Product Market Fit Show | Startup Podcast for Founders·4 months ago